bearing question

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bearing question

Postby christiancarpenter » Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:17 am

ok, i'm moving my bug question over here. last thing was that i had a terrible vibration from my 1600dp. here's where i am. pulled the motor, had a ton (1/8 inch or more) of endplay. pulled the clutch and flywheel. removed the oil seal and 3 shims. the bearing slides forward and backwards that same 1/8th. it also turns about 5 degrees each way. talked to ron at bethany and he gave me a tip about running a couple rounds of slinky between the case and bearing as a somewhat temporary fix. i tried to get it in there but can't get it past the bearing lip. has anyone attempted this before with any success? i'm about ready to just tear it open and start a rebuild (i'm guessing tha case is trashed if there is that much bearing movement, huh?). should i just run it like this till it breaks or will that damage other parts that might be salvagable as of now? money is tight right now but i don't want to be buying more than i need to later if dismantling it now would save me in the long run. it's my fun car so i'm not in any rush, other than it's a beautiful spring and i want to be cruising with the windows down. 8-)
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Re: bearing question

Postby christiancarpenter » Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:47 am

also, any estimates on rebuild kit prices? hopefully the crank and heads are good. i'm not counting on the case being good. do cams tend to go bad? i think the clutch and flywheel look good. never rebuilt one of these so i know i'm gonna have lots of questions. how about machine work? will new/remanned case be machined already? should the crank be machined everytime it is removed? are there any specific tools i will need? i have a good torque wrench and regular tools, but no case splitting tool, torque master, vw specific tools. am i a fool to not buy a longblock?
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Re: bearing question

Postby gimpy60 » Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:59 pm

Well, there is no temp fix for a worn case. But you can have it line bored & the thrust cut so it will be good again. If you decide to split the case get with us first. There are some things to do where you don't mess the whole shebang up. As for buying a long block, you can have yours done or exchange but you throw away the chance to learn something. the torque dude tool is a must for a vw owner, keeps from doing things like a caveman (hammering on axle nuts, jumping up on a cheater bar, etc), that's called evolution. I think I mentioned you should have [u]every[u] manual you can find. Stay tuned....JP 8-)
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Re: bearing question

Postby christiancarpenter » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:09 pm

right on. going to the library to get as many manuals as i can find. i'm gonna strip it down to a long block today and then start my studying. from everything i've read so far, i need to take lots of pics, organize everything in baggies, and write the process out. i've already got labels on most of my wiring and i'll continue on with that. so do i hear you saying that there may be hope for my cases? i agree with learning something. i hate giving money away when it's something i can do. me like to learnie!
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Re: bearing question

Postby gimpy60 » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:28 pm

go to Amazon.com or e-bay & buy the books!!!!!! their cheap insurance, I been playin with these cars for over 4 decades, but I don't know everything, & most I did know has succumed to some wierd disease, so manuals are our friends. c ya.....JP 8-)
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Re: bearing question

Postby christiancarpenter » Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:21 pm

which ones do you recommend?
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Re: bearing question

Postby vdubjim » Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:34 pm

the idiots guide, and the how to rebuild a vw engine, the red one.
still the first time you do it, you need to be under constant supervision in my opinion. one small thing you did wrong and you have to buy bearing s again, line bore again and turn the crank.I build them so infrequent i pay someone to build the shortblock, and not bethany. Sorry fellas ive had too many PERSONAL problems with rogers stuff.....
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Re: bearing question

Postby christiancarpenter » Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:55 pm

where does a shortblock end and a long block start? at the heads? what all does it entail? i'm good at bolting stuff together but don't experience dealing with ultra precision which it seems like the crank would require. how much can you get a shortblock built for?
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Re: bearing question

Postby vdubjim » Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:24 am

Ya, definetly dont want to build it yourself.

Shortblock is the case without piston cyl, heads.

SHorblocks built are between 100-7,000.

Larry at Larrys VW, and roger at Bethany Imports are the only people locally to my knowledge that do the machine work.

It really depends on who you go to and what you bring them. Sounds like some on here have built a motor or two, ive tried more than a few tmes to get people together for a build an engine day on my last few, no luck. maybe you will have better.
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Re: bearing question

Postby gimpy60 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:39 am

Like Jim says, the red book, the idiots guide is good reading for the toilet, a bentley is a must, & if you can actually find one, a genuine vw shop manual, but they are rare & expensive. The vw engine is not nothing exotic, just a big lawnmower engine. There are a few things to watch for, but if you can read, they can be easily overcome. Stay with the samba, use the search & learn. Have a great WINDY Sunday,,,c ya.....JP
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Re: bearing question

Postby vwlimoguy » Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:19 pm

I use the red how to rebuild your VW engine book every time. It is pretty detailed and will take you through a build step by step. I you are looking for basic engine and have some mechanical savy, I'd say try building it yourself. THere's nothing more satisfying than cruising with a motor you built yourself. There is also nothing scarier than cranking it over for the first time and doing the break-in!
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Re: bearing question

Postby christiancarpenter » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:18 pm

ok, so mandoclimber stopped by this evening (turns out we share a street with about 20 houses between us). i met him last year when i drove by in my other 73. anyway, he gave me a bunch of good advice on where to start, parts to upgrade, and other stuff. he's gonna be a huge resource to me i can already tell. nice guy too for those of you who haven't met him yet. he let me borrow all the manuals he had too so i'm starting the big read tonight. i'll keep you informed of progress as i go. money is tight so it's gonna be a "buy a part at a time" build and this could get lengthly. stay tuned.
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Re: bearing question

Postby gimpy60 » Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:57 am

I can relate, took me about two years & $3500 for my last engine. I try to support my habit by selling parts & cars, but don't always work out that way.........c ya JP
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Re: bearing question

Postby christiancarpenter » Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:43 pm

cases split. all went well once i got the first couple screw drivers jammed in there. just kidding. i'm excited to have made some good progress today and i learned a ton just examining the inside. looks like the marks on the cam and crank gear are off 2 teeth. i haven't read about cams yet but i'm guessing that isn't correct. back to reading.
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Re: bearing question

Postby christiancarpenter » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:08 pm

Image
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Re: bearing question

Postby christiancarpenter » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:09 pm

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Re: bearing question

Postby christiancarpenter » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:09 pm

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Re: bearing question

Postby christiancarpenter » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:10 pm

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Re: bearing question

Postby christiancarpenter » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:12 pm

i couldn't get all the pics to load on one response but anyway here is some of the internals. the second pic is what i'm most concerned about right now. that bearing slides back and forth but i'm hoping it hasn't rendered the case unmachinable. does that look terrible to you all? ok, back to reading.
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Re: bearing question

Postby vdubjim » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:25 pm

definitely been beat alittle eh?

Im not an expert at machine work stuff.
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Re: bearing question

Postby gimpy60 » Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:54 am

That can be flycut out, do a line bore too. That is one reason vw recommended to kick it in neutral when you are stopped. Can't see how that was running with the cam off like that, or was it running? You got it apart, your half way to a complete rebuild. Unfortunately I have seen (& bought) a lot of engines in that state, so stay with it. JP
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Re: bearing question

Postby christiancarpenter » Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:17 pm

you guys think this looks like a decent deal? figure i need to start getting supplies one at a time and this price seems reasonable. yea? nea?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... MEWAX%3AIT
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Re: bearing question

Postby Joe-405 » Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:41 pm

looks good to me....................... I got your freebies call me
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Re: bearing question

Postby vdubjim » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:12 am

What brand?

Only use ELRING gasket sets. specifically pushrod tube seals. KERR usually has them for that price, then no shipping.
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