shifting problems

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shifting problems

Postby robwalk45 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:52 pm

New challenge, my beetle has shifted smooth as silk up until the weather turn cold. Had out today for a drive and it didn't want to go back into the 1st and 2nd gear gate in the shift pattern. It stayed in 3rd and 4th side of the H pattern. Will go in reverse and after the car warmed up it seemed to start shifting correctly. Any ideas?
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Re: shifting problems

Postby vdubjim » Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:23 pm

check shift coupler under the rear seat.
correct gear oil?
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Re: shifting problems

Postby robwalk45 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:44 pm

I had the gear oil changed at Eddies VW shop last summer I guess he knows what is supposed to be in it. Will check the coupler. I don't really know how the shifting mechanism works in the VW. I was reading my Bentley manual to try to figure this out, but it really doesn't say much about the shifter, just how to remove and install it.
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Re: shifting problems

Postby vdubjim » Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:07 pm

look under back seat.
Remove plate if its there, usually a phillips screw.
If you can move shifter and watch the coupler,(or get a helper) the trans shaft should move about the same as the shift rod. If there is alot of slop, the cold might have been the last straw for the coupler. they are like $15.oo, also could be loose screws on the shaft, try tightening them. they are normally a square shape, a 10mm fits good enough.

Image
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Re: shifting problems

Postby derbug » Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:14 am

Also could be the shift rod guide bracket, and bushing underneath the shifter....
the bushing may be worn, and dry, and with the cold weather....may be hard to shift...
The bushing with clip, not fun to replace....and the bracket if ever needing replaced...
a real pain......the eye that holds the bushing, fails/breaks

But usually your shifter will feel very sloppy when this fails
Attachments
shift rod with bushing.jpg
shift rod with bushing.jpg (1.99 KiB) Viewed 1637 times
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Re: shifting problems

Postby robwalk45 » Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:14 am

Thanks for the info will check it out tomorrow, the shifter doesn't feel sloppy, think I will start with the coupler. Good picture!
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Re: shifting problems

Postby robwalk45 » Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:49 pm

Well I got it fixed! The plastic bushing on the shifter tube was shot. This was my first shifter tube pull it was quite a project, replaced the bushing and coupler (just for good measure) put it back together and still would not go into first or second gear. I loosened the two bolts that hold the shifter to the tunnel moved the shifter around and viola! it started to work like it should. The bushing was worn/broken and loose in the bracket, but I think the shifter also needed adjusting.
Thank for all the help.
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Re: shifting problems

Postby vdubjim » Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:48 pm

glad to hear it. fun eh?
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Re: shifting problems

Postby derbug » Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:17 pm

Glad you got it fixed....
and responded back on how you resolved the repair.
We all learn from each other in the tech forum.

I have never checked the shifter, bushing or coupler in my VW Thing....
think I will loosen the coupler, remove the shifter, and slide the shifting
tube forward just enough to lube/grease the tube in the area that it moves/operates on the
bushing, also checking the bushing for wear.....then slide back into normal
position and check the coupler and re-attach to the shifting rod to the transx.
I am sure mine is probably some what dry also and could be worn ??
The shift tube bracket usually fails when things are dry, shifting is now in a bind
and the little eye that the bushing rides in binds the eye distorting it and breaking it

There is always a possibility of anything on cars that are 40-50 years old,
when we purchase or acquire and have no former maintenance records on them.
Attachments
63_shiftrod.jpg
Whats in there ??? cut away of 63 tunnel
641654.jpg
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Re: shifting problems

Postby derbug » Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:32 pm

Attached photo marked in red, failure area of shift rod bracket/nylon bushing area
Attachments
shift rod bracket.jpeg
shift rod bracket failure area
(4.04 KiB) Not downloaded yet
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Re: shifting problems

Postby derbug » Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:35 am

Well, bummer bummer ....Just finished checking my shifter nylon bushing:
Hah!!! what bushing ???....it was worn in two....think the back half in gone....could not see it
the wire clip was off the nylon bushing....was up against the shifter tube socket(where
the shifter ball goes in)
And this was shifting with only a little bit of slop....I had no Idea....thought would just be a cake
walk....should of know better....40 year old car.
Speculation: 73 Thing came with an old Hurst Formula V shifter.....I was going to change out
tonight with a Hurst copper trigger shifter(yes an orig. one).....but I came to this conclusion:
It was working before, did not have time tonight to change out the bushing....so I cleaned what I had....
cleaned and lubed the old Form V....greased the shift tube socket....and what was left of the nylon
bushing and the shift tube.....and reinstalled the Formula V shifter.....amazing, and it
shifts great

I could see the shift tube bracket eye....it is not worn....surprise... surprise...
so the repair will just be replacing the nylon bushing(still a pain)

Further speculation/conclusion: The aftermarket shifters are more controlled than the stock
shifters....they are built/with a box frame/cage...controlling the shifting selector
movement....thus the pressure against the shift tube
bracket is not as great, thus no failure to the shift tube bushing bracket....reason mine was not damaged ??
Attachments
CRAIGS LIST 2013-5 007.jpg
Typical box cage aftermarket shifter base
This one is old school Hurst Copper Trigger Shifter
CRAIGS LIST 2013-5 004.jpg
Hurst Formula V Shifter currently in my 73 Thing
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Re: shifting problems

Postby robwalk45 » Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:25 am

My 66 beetle has had the bushing bracket replaced at some time in the past. It also has a large hole cut in the drivers side of the tunnel I don't know how the plastic bushing got in such bad condition it was greased. Some one had really gnarled up the shifter rod , took a lot of work with file/sand paper to get it smooth. I made a pusher out of PVC pipe to install the rod ( cut a notch in one end that would fit the socket on the shifter rod ) that made installation of the rod easy. Putting the front bumper back on was a pain things didn't want line up, I guess it has been bumped a few time.
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Re: shifting problems

Postby olebugman » Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:10 pm

Thanks to all of u who responded to this shifting problem...I got my. First vw in 65..and have been hooked ever since...and am still learning ...they are a project of love!! I willbe reading all the tech issues all the time..
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Re: shifting problems

Postby derbug » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:26 pm

FYI:...sort of an update on shifters and the nylon or what ever the heck they make
them out of shifter tube bushing :evil:
Now I have two of them to replace....the one on my Thing and the other on my daughter's 74 bug

When I did the rebuild on my daughter's car about 4 years ago....I replaced the nylon bushing....
wire wheeled the shifting tube rod.....lubed and installed....so I thought we were good to go
for about 10+ years or more....ha ha...should of known

I installed an empi(hurst) trigger shifter clone at the time of the build....which the car was really
not driven much for the first 3 years....up until this year.....I get a call from my daughter a Monday
night....the trigger for reverse....had no tension...(she also could not shift into reverse)
thus speculated the cable(which is really just a wire)
broke....so I went to Bethany Imports purchased another empi clone trigger shifter for a quick fix...
which we did Tuesday evening after she got off work....well while I had the old shifter removed....thought
I would peak into the tunnel and look at the nylon bushing.... :x it was already worn out (in two pieces) :x
The replacement nylon bushings are I guess really crap....really do not know where one can get a genuine
vw nylon bushing.....so I guess we are stuck with the aftermarket replacements....they will prematurely
fail.... :roll: thought I would just give you all this little tidbit of info on this not so fun repair

I did find good info with lots of pictures on rebuilding the hurst style trigger shifter
see below:
http://www.volksrods.com/forum/showthread.php?p=379904
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Re: shifting problems

Postby vdubjim » Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:35 pm

Try using the part number at the vw dealer. Sometimes old stuff comes up, few years ago I bought the big IRS pivot bolt.
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Re: shifting problems

Postby derbug » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:08 pm

FYI: Update on the Empi clone(Hurst style trigger shifter)
I repaired the failed Empi shifter that I took out of my daughter's car
this evening....
(see my above post for why I am repairing)
When this cable/wire fails...it may also make it difficult for shifting
your forward gears....for it lets the pick up washer bind against
the shifter box/cage.
I utilized a VW heater cable/wire(as a replacement)
....a little bigger wire in diameter (the Empi wire/cable really small)
The VW heater wire can be bent and hold the bent/crimp
position....a little trouble to thread through....but this bigger
wire/cable should last much longer than the little scrawny wire/cable
in the Empi Trigger Shifter.
How to: removed the
shift ball....slide the trigger off....pull out the old wire/cable....
from the top....and there should be a little from the bottom
thread in the new wire from the top....pre-bend the new wire at the top
and make about an 1" longer than you need for the total length you will need....one
can measure of what is left of the old cable/wire and get an idea
....for you will thread through
the trigger...ball and washer....then crimp the wire at the bottom....you will see the
slot it rides in(the bottom washer)....you want to have tension on the pick up washer.
You have to clean halfway good...so you can see what you are doing....
re-lube with grease....screw on your hand shifter ball ....re-install....and you are good to go.
you may want to test that it works....before you install....just hold it in a vise....and go through
the gears...and pick up reverse......check and re-check you gears.....and picking up reverse....
then your good to go....
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Re: shifting problems

Postby vdubjim » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:19 pm

I have no idea what you just said
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Re: shifting problems

Postby derbug » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:04 pm

vdubjim wrote:I have no idea what you just said

He he....
Guess one has to have a broken "Empi Trigger Shifter" out of
the car and physically in the hand....to grasp the repair..... :lol:
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Re: shifting problems

Postby vdubjim » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:35 am

Perhaps. Or pics ;)
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Re: shifting problems

Postby Bobs68VW » Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:54 am

vdubjim wrote:I have no idea what you just said


Made perfect sense to me... :D

I just had to jerk your chain Jim!!! You left yourself so wide open.... :lol: :D :lol:
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